Love the one you’re with

11Aug/078

Love the one you’re with

Rant time!

Some people hate using Microsoft Windows. Some people just hate Microsoft. I can accept that Microsoft makes some wonky design decisions and that some of their server and desktop products are harder to use than they should be. But they also get a lot right. If you can fall into a Microsoft Taoist state and just go with the flow of their domain administration, you can spend a lot of time not doing much of anything.

But if you hate Microsoft, don’t use their products. Don’t say you hate Microsoft, and then use their products poorly, then blame Microsoft. Don’t install Netscape or FireFox and then think you are sticking it to Bill Gates and his crappy browser. Don’t think that by forcing me to use one third party calendaring application and a separate email application that you are making my life easier. Don’t think that because your particular methodology of the month doesn’t fit exactly into the ASP.NET web page lifecycle that you need to hack and hack until it looks somewhat like Ruby on Rails, but without all the nice dynamic typing and metaprogramming that makes RoR easy to use. Just use Ruby on Rails. Just use Zimbra or Zoho or Google Apps or Open Office. Just use OS X or Linux. Just don’t pose.

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http://terminally-incoherent.com Luke

I probably spend equal amount of time between Windows and Linux. I have seen both sides of the picture, and I do not fully agree with this notion. There are good and bad sides about every operating system.

It is true that using a system that you absolutely hate might seem a little bit hypocritical. But what if there are no alternatives.

For example, I love Linux, but the gaming scene on that system is non-existent. Every once in a while I like to play a good FPS or RPG game and for that I usually need windows. Does that mean I need to love windows? No, I use it because there are no other alternatives.

Also, since I use Firefox on Linux, does it make me a poser if I install it on my Windows machine? Is it wrong to have the same web-browsing environment on all my systems? Not to mention that Firefox gives me more options and features than IE with it’s extensions, themes and etc.

I’m not doing this to “stick it to the man” – I’m doing this because as a discerning consumer I find that Firefox provides me with more value.
http://jonrowett.com JonR

ouch!
http://jonrowett.com JonR

it’s very tough to change platforms entirely, mid career. if the platform you’re tied to doesn’t keep up with the modern world, or takes a direction you’re opposed too, you’re bound to feel some resentment. much about ASP.NET and the general Windows user experience drives me into a rage these days, and i’m openly envious of the developers who had the foresight (or luck) to bet their careers on an ugly looking stack that’s now metamorphosed into something wonderous – but this is good, because it drives me to find better ways of working: my ASP.NET skills and productivity have improved five fold since i started hating ASP.NET.*

the worst developers are the ones who never look outside their comfort zone, whether that’s other platforms or simply other working methods. in particular, the “my platform/language/tool is the One True platform/language/tool” mentality drives me up the bloody wall, because most of us are tied to particular technologies through accidents of fate early on in our careers, not through some conscious exercise in rigorous impartial evaluation of the various offerings. i know that the only reason i’m an ASP.NET guy is because my first webmaster job was in a place using Classic ASP. if they’d been on JSP or PHP, it would have been a different story i’m sure.

* productivity has taken a temporary dive while i write this lengthy blog comment
http://www.lazycoder.com Scott

Luke: Right, but there is a difference between understanding that the Windows platform does offer some advantages and just bitching about Windows while continuing to use it because you’re too scared to try another platform. My driving reason for writing this ill-reasoned rant was hearing about someone who set up a Windows network in their enterprise, but set it up in Workgroup mode rather than domain mode. That and having to listen to multiple-users bitch about Windows but balk at switching to Linux or OS X. I’d disagree about the gaming alternatives on Linux. Transgaming makes an excellent product, which you’re probably aware of, Id software always seems to create a Linux version of their games. There are many single-player and multi-player FPS games that are based on the Quake2/3 engines that are native to Linux. The linux RPG scene is a barren wasteland consisting mostly of NetHack. Which is…err…uhh…OK I guess if you like that sort of thing.

JonR: I don’t know if I’d be envious about people using JSP/J2EE/PHP. I’ve spent some time in that world. It’s an ugly world full of endliess case and whitespace specific xml configuration files. I live a triple life, Windows at work, Apple at home, Linux on my home servers and my site servers. I’ve given up on getting anything other than maybe PHP or Rails in anything other than an internal application at work. But at least knowing I don’t have to go home to Windows acts as a kind of pressure release valve. But I agree about devs who don’t look outside of their favorite methodology. But it seems like there is a lot of unfocused bitching about the .NET stack and people trying to make the ASP.NET framework into something it isn’t, which is counter-productive it seems to me.
http://jonrowett.com JonR

oops, i did *not* mean to give the impression i’m envious of Java or PHP guys! heaven forbid. i was – predictably – alluding to Rails, and my current relationship to Ruby, OS X and Linux is exactly the same as you describe.

> people trying to make the ASP.NET framework into something it isn’t

i don’t suppose you want to elaborate on that? do you have beef with the current vogue for MVC-style code, or with MonoRail, or both (or neither)? for me, injecting a bit of imperfect, bastardised MVC into my ASP.NET development style has been a really positive thing.
smart

try{whateveryoulike();} catch{whatevereravailable();} finally{decidewhateveryoulike();}//

if(MS vs Others) {
i dont know why all these rants are going on;
check out the history of all these guys: Gates, Allen, Linus, Elliot, etc ;
they have been very focus and purposeful;
what they have offered as individuals may not be perfect;
but there is always room for improvement;

I have used Windows, Linux, done Borland/Turbo C/C++, MS QBsic, VB, C#, Java, PHP… I am currently using all, but most times with MS (anything: .NET, VB, C#, ..). You can guess why urself. If you dont like that? Choose from other plenty options available: RAD, DAR, .NET, TEN., mono, nomo, anything.

Summary: I prefer what is good, affordable(?), easy and fast. Why do you think I dont do my app in C++ these days. OH OH… I could even try writing my own OS if I want to be declared as an instance of Stupid class.

TRY{
YOUR OWN;}
catch{;}
finally{let see what you can do;}

}
http://jonrowett.com JonR

most transparent troll ever
http://www.lazycoder.com Scott

do you have beef with the current vogue for MVC-style code, or with MonoRail, or both (or neither)?

Not necessarily, but I’m more pragmatic about patterns and frameworks when I consider the scope of the project itself. I generally won’t try to force ASP.NET into an MVC/P pattern if I’m creating an application for internal use by < 10 people. The maintenance requirements for an app like that are usually low enough that the extra work isn’t justified. I’ll just slap some controls on the page and wire them up using the code-behind and maybe a simple DAL using SubSonic.

You’ll always be hampered, IMO, when trying to get ASP.NET to use an MVC/P pattern mainly because of the page lifecycle.