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	<title>Comments on: Interviewing software developers: You&#8217;re doing it wrong.</title>
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	<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/</link>
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		<title>By: Dave Rodenbaugh</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-199276</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rodenbaugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-199276</guid>
		<description>The &quot;stump-the-chump&quot; technique is how most folks try to get at the &quot;how do you think question&quot; and I don&#039;t think it works well, either (to a degree).  

I have suggestions for 21st Century Interviewing for Developers:  http://www.lessonsoffailure.com/developers/stop-dumbing-world-bad-interview-questions/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;stump-the-chump&#8221; technique is how most folks try to get at the &#8220;how do you think question&#8221; and I don&#8217;t think it works well, either (to a degree).  </p>
<p>I have suggestions for 21st Century Interviewing for Developers:  <a href="http://www.lessonsoffailure.com/developers/stop-dumbing-world-bad-interview-questions/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lessonsoffailure.com/developers/stop-dumbing-world-bad-interview-questions/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lee Brandt</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-181252</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Brandt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-181252</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d have to agree with you, Scott. I also would have to say I am an offender. I didn&#039;t ask about linked lists, but I do ask some basic questions about C#, OOP&amp;D, and agile terms. Most of my questions are not standard right/wrong answer questions, they are kida &quot;see where this person is&quot; in terms of their skills. But I&#039;ve had guys that nailed the (short) Q&amp;A part of the interview and foundered on the coding &amp; design parts. I DO like the idea of actually pairing with someone for an hour or so to see where they are. 

Thanks for the post, I will be revising my interviewing techniques as a result. I LOVE learning/getting new ideas.

~Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have to agree with you, Scott. I also would have to say I am an offender. I didn&#8217;t ask about linked lists, but I do ask some basic questions about C#, <acronym title='Object Oriented Programming'><span class='caps'>OOP</span></acronym>&amp;D, and agile terms. Most of my questions are not standard right/wrong answer questions, they are kida &#8220;see where this person is&#8221; in terms of their skills. But I&#8217;ve had guys that nailed the (short) Q&amp;A part of the interview and foundered on the coding &amp; design parts. I DO like the idea of actually pairing with someone for an hour or so to see where they are. </p>
<p>Thanks for the post, I will be revising my interviewing techniques as a result. I LOVE learning/getting new ideas.</p>
<p>~Lee</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-180210</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-180210</guid>
		<description>I am one to believe that developers need to unionize.  Never been too much into the union thing, though as a teenager I worked for several companies and was part of their unions (i.e. grocery store clerk)...  

Why?  Because.  Corporate America doesnt care for the developer.  They dont know how to deal with us, they dont know how to pay us, they dont know what to expect from us.  They dont know, also, what person is right or wrong, for a position -- as is the point you&#039;re making here.

They consider us as an &quot;expense&quot;.  A loss as I have heard all too many times in the past.  The expect us to develop software that has little to no specifications, in unreasonable amounts of time and for pay that makes some of us laugh.  They expect overtime without pay.  Would you ever see an attorney work a moment of overtime without charging the client?  Would you see an electrician change the entire plan to wire a house after he began his job, without renegotiating his contract?  

We need representation of SOME sort.  Agents, Brokers, Union Boss - whichever works best.   Certainly, a huge percentage of us dont represent ourselves very well.  

For example: @John.  Why are you doing an assignment for your interview?  Thats absurd.  Companies love to do that, they give potential employees &quot;assignments&quot; which are nothing more than work that they need done.  Attorneys are notorious for doing this with their interviewees.  They&#039;ll give them a &quot;typing test&quot; to see how they do and what is it?  Its work.  They get free work, especially if they dont hire the candidate.   And with John, they&#039;re getting free work and/or IDEAS.

People, our skills are in our brains.  It is our commodity and there is no reason to share it.  These corporations demand that we, contract types, sign non-compete clauses which I personally refuse to do.   Why would I want to cut off a portion of the population from my ability to earn a living from?   

There is no need for certifications (MS, CISCO, etc).  There IS a need to get organized into a nation group, however.  Much like Hoffa did with the truckers.  It may LOOK bad to some people who do not understand it too much but let me tell you, people protected by Unions do NOT work at 5:01pm unless they&#039;re respected and they get paid.

Too much BS about &quot;your biggest weakness&quot;, I agree.  My answer to those idiotic questions always is &quot;My biggest weakness is taking a job with a company that asks me what my biggest weakness is&quot;.   The look on the faces of those who hear that is priceless.  Amazingly, I&#039;ve earned the contract work for over 75% of those places even after answering that way.

People - take your own lives into your hands and dont take crap from these companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one to believe that developers need to unionize.  Never been too much into the union thing, though as a teenager I worked for several companies and was part of their unions (i.e. grocery store clerk)&#8230;  </p>
<p>Why?  Because.  Corporate America doesnt care for the developer.  They dont know how to deal with us, they dont know how to pay us, they dont know what to expect from us.  They dont know, also, what person is right or wrong, for a position &#8212; as is the point you&#8217;re making here.</p>
<p>They consider us as an &#8220;expense&#8221;.  A loss as I have heard all too many times in the past.  The expect us to develop software that has little to no specifications, in unreasonable amounts of time and for pay that makes some of us laugh.  They expect overtime without pay.  Would you ever see an attorney work a moment of overtime without charging the client?  Would you see an electrician change the entire plan to wire a house after he began his job, without renegotiating his contract?  </p>
<p>We need representation of SOME sort.  Agents, Brokers, Union Boss &#8211; whichever works best.   Certainly, a huge percentage of us dont represent ourselves very well.  </p>
<p>For example: @John.  Why are you doing an assignment for your interview?  Thats absurd.  Companies love to do that, they give potential employees &#8220;assignments&#8221; which are nothing more than work that they need done.  Attorneys are notorious for doing this with their interviewees.  They&#8217;ll give them a &#8220;typing test&#8221; to see how they do and what is it?  Its work.  They get free work, especially if they dont hire the candidate.   And with John, they&#8217;re getting free work and/or IDEAS.</p>
<p>People, our skills are in our brains.  It is our commodity and there is no reason to share it.  These corporations demand that we, contract types, sign non-compete clauses which I personally refuse to do.   Why would I want to cut off a portion of the population from my ability to earn a living from?   </p>
<p>There is no need for certifications (MS, CISCO, etc).  There IS a need to get organized into a nation group, however.  Much like Hoffa did with the truckers.  It may LOOK bad to some people who do not understand it too much but let me tell you, people protected by Unions do NOT work at 5:01pm unless they&#8217;re respected and they get paid.</p>
<p>Too much BS about &#8220;your biggest weakness&#8221;, I agree.  My answer to those idiotic questions always is &#8220;My biggest weakness is taking a job with a company that asks me what my biggest weakness is&#8221;.   The look on the faces of those who hear that is priceless.  Amazingly, I&#8217;ve earned the contract work for over 75% of those places even after answering that way.</p>
<p>People &#8211; take your own lives into your hands and dont take crap from these companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilyas Kazi</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179699</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilyas Kazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179699</guid>
		<description>@ Lazycoder,

I m same as you. Thanks for sharing.
I also thanks for all the valuable comments for this post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lazycoder,</p>
<p>I m same as you. Thanks for sharing.<br />
I also thanks for all the valuable comments for this post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Buu Nguyen</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179666</link>
		<dc:creator>Buu Nguyen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179666</guid>
		<description>I agree, and that&#039;s what the SWEBOK is supposed to accomplish as David Good mentioned.  Just one comment on this:

&quot;Granted there is a difference between a position where a lack of knowledge could KILL someone versus and position where a lack of knowledge causes a loop to run 100 milliseconds slower.&quot;

Depending on which software you&#039;re working on, lack of knowledge may cause financially or human loss as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, and that&#8217;s what the SWEBOK is supposed to accomplish as David Good mentioned.  Just one comment on this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Granted there is a difference between a position where a lack of knowledge could KILL someone versus and position where a lack of knowledge causes a loop to run 100 milliseconds slower.&#8221;</p>
<p>Depending on which software you&#8217;re working on, lack of knowledge may cause financially or human loss as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Neal</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179605</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179605</guid>
		<description>I think I would have to generally agree with your statement that the interview process is to see if the candidate is lying.  In fact at my last job my boss basically used this as his only criteria for hire/no hire.  Lets just say, we lost a good candidate who forgot how the observer pattern works.

I&#039;m not sure I like the idea of a board certifying software engineers.  I think this profession is still to young to make that work, we just don&#039;t have enough figured out yet in regards to practices and methodology.  Besides, things vary between language and platform by a wide margin.  I think a board might just stifle creativity at this point.

I&#039;ve run into a few people who lied on their resume, but they&#039;ve always been easy to pick out.  I like to use candidates resume as a starting point for a discussion.  I think this is far more interesting, and more often than not I get to learn something new.

Oh, and I&#039;m glad to now be working with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I would have to generally agree with your statement that the interview process is to see if the candidate is lying.  In fact at my last job my boss basically used this as his only criteria for hire/no hire.  Lets just say, we lost a good candidate who forgot how the observer pattern works.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I like the idea of a board certifying software engineers.  I think this profession is still to young to make that work, we just don&#8217;t have enough figured out yet in regards to practices and methodology.  Besides, things vary between language and platform by a wide margin.  I think a board might just stifle creativity at this point.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve run into a few people who lied on their resume, but they&#8217;ve always been easy to pick out.  I like to use candidates resume as a starting point for a discussion.  I think this is far more interesting, and more often than not I get to learn something new.</p>
<p>Oh, and I&#8217;m glad to now be working with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stuifzand</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179593</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stuifzand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179593</guid>
		<description>Why not let the developer sit and work out a few coding tests in a programming language used in the organization. Seeing a developer code is a way to get an idea about the skill. An example for Perl:
One exercise where regular expressions are a good solution and one where hashes are a good solution. If the developer doesn&#039;t know how to use both, then he&#039;s is not a Perl developer.
For other programming languages there should be other tests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not let the developer sit and work out a few coding tests in a programming language used in the organization. Seeing a developer code is a way to get an idea about the skill. An example for Perl:<br />
One exercise where regular expressions are a good solution and one where hashes are a good solution. If the developer doesn&#8217;t know how to use both, then he&#8217;s is not a Perl developer.<br />
For other programming languages there should be other tests.</p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179583</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179583</guid>
		<description>I was under the impression that the likes of MS, Cisco and others created their own certification streams to try and solve this very problem? In the case of MS, you have, say, MCPD qualifications which &quot;should&quot; tell you that someone is qualified to use a certain technology to a decent level.

The problem here is that getting those certifications is INCREDIBLY easy, and most people don&#039;t even bother learning the material, they instead read Braindumps or Certkiller papers. It makes the whole thing a farce.

Degrees are hardly an indication that someone is capable of writing good software, and hence aren&#039;t really a great yardstick. Masters or PhDs aren&#039;t good either, as most (and I mean most, not all ;)) people who fit into this category are too academic to be of use in the &quot;real world&quot; (I hope I don&#039;t get flamed too much for saying that!).

So how would you go about licensing a dev without the above issues biting you in the butt?

I certainly don&#039;t know the answer :) I don&#039;t think the likes of Sweebok do either (with all due respect). So for now we&#039;re down to relying on experience and references which should be evident from interviews.

Great post by the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was under the impression that the likes of MS, Cisco and others created their own certification streams to try and solve this very problem? In the case of MS, you have, say, MCPD qualifications which &#8220;should&#8221; tell you that someone is qualified to use a certain technology to a decent level.</p>
<p>The problem here is that getting those certifications is INCREDIBLY easy, and most people don&#8217;t even bother learning the material, they instead read Braindumps or Certkiller papers. It makes the whole thing a farce.</p>
<p>Degrees are hardly an indication that someone is capable of writing good software, and hence aren&#8217;t really a great yardstick. Masters or PhDs aren&#8217;t good either, as most (and I mean most, not all <img src='http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) people who fit into this category are too academic to be of use in the &#8220;real world&#8221; (I hope I don&#8217;t get flamed too much for saying that!).</p>
<p>So how would you go about licensing a dev without the above issues biting you in the butt?</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t know the answer <img src='http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I don&#8217;t think the likes of Sweebok do either (with all due respect). So for now we&#8217;re down to relying on experience and references which should be evident from interviews.</p>
<p>Great post by the way!</p>
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		<title>By: Robz</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179582</link>
		<dc:creator>Robz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179582</guid>
		<description>@John: That sounds awesome! I would like to hear what you find out.

@Scott: Darn! One of my favorite questions to ask is &quot;What are your 3 biggest weaknesses and what do you do to mitigate them?&quot;!!!!!!!!!! 

I like what John said though!  The homework thing, I think we should try that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John: That sounds awesome! I would like to hear what you find out.</p>
<p>@Scott: Darn! One of my favorite questions to ask is &#8220;What are your 3 biggest weaknesses and what do you do to mitigate them?&#8221;!!!!!!!!!! </p>
<p>I like what John said though!  The homework thing, I think we should try that.</p>
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		<title>By: Tech interview questions &#187; Why your programming interview process is wrong</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/07/22/interviewing-software-developers-youre-doing-it-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-179577</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech interview questions &#187; Why your programming interview process is wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=968#comment-179577</guid>
		<description>[...] Koon at LazyCoder thinks your programming interview is wrong for asking the developers the type of questions that have been solved: So as it stands, programming [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Koon at LazyCoder thinks your programming interview is wrong for asking the developers the type of questions that have been solved: So as it stands, programming [...]</p>
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