<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Is Drag and Drop development a lofty goal?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:39:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Robz</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181593</link>
		<dc:creator>Robz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181593</guid>
		<description>Should programming as a skill move towards the way of typists (where everyone can do it, so it&#039;s not specialized)? 

I think that is what we are really asking here.  And I think we are a long way from that. Of course I, like everyone else who reads this blog, am biased. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should programming as a skill move towards the way of typists (where everyone can do it, so it&#8217;s not specialized)? </p>
<p>I think that is what we are really asking here.  And I think we are a long way from that. Of course I, like everyone else who reads this blog, am biased. <img src='http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robz</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181592</link>
		<dc:creator>Robz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181592</guid>
		<description>@Mike: Unless you are brought in specifically to put out an emergency. Then you should be sure you are compensated as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike: Unless you are brought in specifically to put out an emergency. Then you should be sure you are compensated as such.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181587</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181587</guid>
		<description>There really is only one flavor.  Flavor two.  I have not yet met a client who thinks even the most difficult assignments should require more than a few days, start to finish.  They wont even consider that there needs to be information gathering and analysis.  That there can and WILL be roadblocks and obstacles.  That there isnt, no matter what anyone says, a simple one-click installation with our eyes closed and it works that moment. 

These people (managers, CEOs, users) are effectively children.  They want their instant gratification YESTERDAY and dont care about how we do it because to them, its a game. Its all colors and screens and graphics and sounds and its really: playing.  Isnt it?  We just play around on the computer all day. 

The REAL problem lies with us: the developers.  We allow these jackasses to treat us as they do.  We should all, collectively, sit back for a couple of says and watch these companies fall apart as their know-it-all managers attempt to write this EASY code.  

I have zero respect for people who insist that our job is easy.  Some projects ARE simple.  Most arent.   And I refuse to deliver code on their schedule because it is always way too short.  Think ahead middle managers.  Lack of planning on your part IS NOT an emergency on mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There really is only one flavor.  Flavor two.  I have not yet met a client who thinks even the most difficult assignments should require more than a few days, start to finish.  They wont even consider that there needs to be information gathering and analysis.  That there can and WILL be roadblocks and obstacles.  That there isnt, no matter what anyone says, a simple one-click installation with our eyes closed and it works that moment. </p>
<p>These people (managers, CEOs, users) are effectively children.  They want their instant gratification YESTERDAY and dont care about how we do it because to them, its a game. Its all colors and screens and graphics and sounds and its really: playing.  Isnt it?  We just play around on the computer all day. </p>
<p>The REAL problem lies with us: the developers.  We allow these jackasses to treat us as they do.  We should all, collectively, sit back for a couple of says and watch these companies fall apart as their know-it-all managers attempt to write this EASY code.  </p>
<p>I have zero respect for people who insist that our job is easy.  Some projects ARE simple.  Most arent.   And I refuse to deliver code on their schedule because it is always way too short.  Think ahead middle managers.  Lack of planning on your part IS NOT an emergency on mine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Is Drag and Drop development a lofty goal?</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181536</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Drag and Drop development a lofty goal?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181536</guid>
		<description>[...] Original Nuketown &#124; Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Geekdom [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Original Nuketown | Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Geekdom [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: G. Andrew Duthie</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181516</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Andrew Duthie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181516</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, though I don&#039;t want my computers to write the whole program for me. I actually *like* writing code sometimes. 

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, though I don&#8217;t want my computers to write the whole program for me. I actually *like* writing code sometimes. </p>
<p> <img src='http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181512</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181512</guid>
		<description>GAD: I think you&#039;re confusing what I think devs should do with how I think non-developers view computers. In my experience those are the two responses to computer I get from non-developers. It&#039;s either &quot;CAN you change that? Is it hard?&quot; or &quot;Why can&#039;t you just change that?&quot;

FWIW, I want to move towards the Star Trek &quot;Computer: write me a program that does X&quot; model. Or maybe the Star Wars model where the programs write themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GAD: I think you&#8217;re confusing what I think devs should do with how I think non-developers view computers. In my experience those are the two responses to computer I get from non-developers. It&#8217;s either &#8220;CAN you change that? Is it hard?&#8221; or &#8220;Why can&#8217;t you just change that?&#8221;</p>
<p>FWIW, I want to move towards the Star Trek &#8220;Computer: write me a program that does X&#8221; model. Or maybe the Star Wars model where the programs write themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: G. Andrew Duthie</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181511</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Andrew Duthie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181511</guid>
		<description>&quot;People generally come in two flavors when it comes to dealing with computers. Flavor one thinks that everything is hard, flavor two thinks that everything should be easy for the programmer to fix.&quot;

I&#039;m in between. I don&#039;t think *everything* should be easy. But when and where we can, we should move towards abstracting stuff away so we can focus on more important things.

D&amp;D is nothing but an abstraction. Whether it&#039;s the *right* abstraction is certainly open to debate. But the industry has already agreed that abstraction is good, or else we wouldn&#039;t have operating systems, programming languages, compilers, etc.

So by all means, let&#039;s have a discussion about whether particular forms of D&amp;D development are useful abstractions, or cause more trouble than they&#039;re worth. But can we skip the blanket statements maybe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People generally come in two flavors when it comes to dealing with computers. Flavor one thinks that everything is hard, flavor two thinks that everything should be easy for the programmer to fix.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in between. I don&#8217;t think *everything* should be easy. But when and where we can, we should move towards abstracting stuff away so we can focus on more important things.</p>
<p>D&amp;D is nothing but an abstraction. Whether it&#8217;s the *right* abstraction is certainly open to debate. But the industry has already agreed that abstraction is good, or else we wouldn&#8217;t have operating systems, programming languages, compilers, etc.</p>
<p>So by all means, let&#8217;s have a discussion about whether particular forms of D&amp;D development are useful abstractions, or cause more trouble than they&#8217;re worth. But can we skip the blanket statements maybe?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Davey</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181509</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Davey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181509</guid>
		<description>How about keeping D&amp;D, but use it to design rich domain objects?
Given enough a &quot;richness&quot; the UI layer can be generated from the domain objects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about keeping D&amp;D, but use it to design rich domain objects?<br />
Given enough a &#8220;richness&#8221; the UI layer can be generated from the domain objects.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jesse Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/2008/08/13/is-drag-and-drop-development-a-lofty-goal/comment-page-1/#comment-181508</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/?p=980#comment-181508</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having this throw-down fight right now as we speak.  Old code works with old site, old code does NOT work with new and it&#039;s a TOTAL PITA to figure out why.  &quot;They really like that feature&quot; ...sigh.  Great, wonderful, perfect.  Your estimation hours just quadrupled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having this throw-down fight right now as we speak.  Old code works with old site, old code does NOT work with new and it&#8217;s a TOTAL PITA to figure out why.  &#8220;They really like that feature&#8221; &#8230;sigh.  Great, wonderful, perfect.  Your estimation hours just quadrupled.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
