In our final interview from NDC London, Jon and K. Scott talk to Rob Ashton his cage match with Jeremy Miller on NodeJS vs. C#, some functional languages he’s been learning, and cooking just enough curry.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 190: Rob Ashton on NodeJS vs C#, Clojure and Cooking Constraints
- The NDC Cage Match: Testing! NodeJS vs. C#
- (00:18) K Scott asks Rob about the cage match he just had with Jeremy Miller comparing testing in NodeJS and C#. Rob’s got a lot of good things to say about what Jeremy showed, but is pretty sure he won.
- (02:40) K Scott asks Rob to explain why he doesn’t like monkey patching. Rob mentions how QuickCheck helps, then talks about how code structure obviates the need for monkey patching.
- (05:16) Jon asks how he bootstraps his application to inject dependencies and explains how he avoids deep dependency chains.
- (06:40) K Scott asks what led him to Clojure.
- (07:39) Jon asks Rob what he likes about Clojure. Rob says a better question is what he likes about functional programming languagues, then explains.
- (09:25) K Scott asks about some of the learning project Rob’s been working with to learn Clojure. Rob talks about some of the games he started with, then the RavenDb reimplementation he’s been building with Clojure called Craven.
- What do you do in your free time?
- (12:56) K Scott asks Rob what he does in his free time. Rob starts by talking about Clojure, then talks about some of the complicated cooking things he’s been working on. He talks about some of the similarities between cooking and coding, and some of the constraint he deals with in ambitions cooking projects.
- The future
- (14:58) K Scott asks Rob about some of his plans for early 2014. Erlang away!
- (01:20) Jon ran over to the talk when he heard (via Twitter) that Gary was (or will be, it’s all so confusing) mentioning Singularity.
- (02:20) Jon asks about Gary’s references to the performance improvements gained by turning off hardware protection. Gary and Jon discuss how Singularity and the (yet to be developed) Asm language offer high performance due to this approach.
- (06:30) Jon asks what we’re writing our code in, now that it’s compiling to Asm. Gary doesn’t specify that – it’s not really necessary to pick one, and he doesn’t need to alienate anyone unnecessarily.
- (08:54) Jon asks if Asm is perfect, or just good enough. Gary talks about how both Asm and the HTML DOM (which also has become universal in 2035) are full of flaws, but they’re better than fragmentation. Jon and Gary talk abouthow
- (10:45) K Scott says this all sounds plausible, all that’s needed is time. So, why 2035? Gary talks about his reasoning… it could happen faster. He talks about some core services moving into operating system kernels, and Jon and K Scott agree.
- (12:55) Jon applauds Gary’s 25-30 minute talk length.
- (13:15) Jon mentions some of the interesting audience questions at the end of the talk. Gary talks about some of the most interesting. All of them were pretty easy except for the question of parallel execution.
- (15:20) There’s a discussion about the limitations of x86 architecture and parallelism.
- (16:10) Jon asks about some of the other things Gary’s up to – there are the Destroy All Software screencasts and a consumer product Gary’s working on but isn’t ready to announce yet.
- (16:40) K Scott asks Gary about relaxation and recreation. Gary says that he’d become really preoccupied with things that were bad in software, and it was stressing him out. He’s made three changes: intentional social interactions, crossfit and playing guitar. All three have helped him be less angry about the state of software… which is all hacks on x86, when we get down to it.
At NDC London, Jon talks to Pete Smith about Superscribe, a library which brings graph based routing to ASP.NET, Web API and OWIN.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 188: Pete Smith on Superscribe
Note: There’s a little bit of background noise due to the conference recording.
- Intro to Superscribe
- (00:20) Jon asks Pete to explain what Superscribe’s graph-based routing means. Pete explains how traditional routing needs to check each route for a match, one at a time. Graph-based routing stores using a structure, so there are some performance gains due to only matching routes with a matching structure rather than using string matching.
- Extensibility due to strongly typed route nodes
- (02:37) Each node in the graph is a strongly typed entity, so you can use an activation function for each node in the graph to determine if it’s a match rather than just using a simple regex match. You can write custom activation functions for any node. For parameter matching, Superscribe uses TryParse rather than regex matches.
- (04:22) There are three guiding principles behind Superscribe: composability, efficiency and extensibility.
- The OWIN connection
- (05:22) Jon asks where Superscribe can be used. Pete says it’s currently usable in Web API and OWIN, with NancyFx and possibly MVC on the way.
- (06:02) In addition to activation functions, you can also define an action function which says what should happen when a node is matched. This allows running different OWIN middleware based on route matches. This means you can hook up authentication middleware using an action function which will only operate on a specific node.
- Graphs vs. Trees
- (08:16) You can hook up optional nodes, which would allow things like an optional /debug/ route prefix which would hook up tracing middleware. Pete says this is something that wouldn’t be possible with tree-based routing (available in NancyFx).
- (09:00) Jon asks what the difference is between tree-based routing and graph-based routing. Both are connected nodes, and trees are a type of graph in which the node connections branch out and ever reconnect, whereas in a graph any node may connect to any other node.
- API options: Different ways to define route graphs
- (09:53) Jon asks how developers will define nodes in Superscribe. Pete talks about the difference between economy and expressivity: economic design has fewer options but is easy to learn, while expressive design offers many options but a steeper learning curve. Superscribe is currently more expressive, using a domain specific language using operator overloads. It overloads the / symbol to add segments and the | operator to allow defining multiple routes (or the entire graph) in a single line.
- (12:28) Jon says that you can always add an economic API layer over an expressive one. Pete agrees and says that since everything’s strongly typed underneath, you can configure it explicitly or fluently as well (if you don’t like the DSL).
- (13:14) Jon asks about how to hook in action functions or activator functions. Pete says they’re currently not available in the DSL, so you’d need to build those notes out by hand at this point.
- Miscellaneous questions and pretend ending
- (15:08) Jon asks about using routes for localization. Pete talks about some options for doing that.
- (16:28) Jon asks what’s next on the list. Pete lists some features: syntax improvements and OWIN middleware ideas.
- (19:12) Jon asks how people can learn more and keep up, Pete talks about Superscribe.org.
- Update on the 0.4 release (follow-up phone call)
- (22:11) Jon asks what’s new in the 0.4 release. Pete starts by describing some improvements to the routing syntax.
- (23:02) You can now combine Web API replacement routing, traditional routing, Attribute Routing and Superscribe in the same application, so you can pick and choose.
- (23:24) You can wire it up with an IOC container, so you can compose different components based on routes. You can also use route information in OWIN middleware.
- (23:56) Everything about the new release is up on the Superscribe.org site.
At NDC London, Jon and K. Scott talk to Paul Betts about several of his recent open source libraries designed to simplify cross platform development on C#.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 187: Brock Allen on ASP.NET Security and Identity
- (00:18) Brock gave two presentations on security at NDC, as well as a two day pre-conference workshop with Dominick Baier (also on security).
- Brock’s contribution of CORS support to ASP.NET Web API
- (00:35) Jon asks Brock about the CORS support he recently contributed to ASP.NET Web API. Brock tells the history of how he built a CORS implementation at Thinktecture and how he went about contributing it.
- (01:21) Jon asks Brock about what was involved in his CORS implementation. Brock describes the limitations browsers place on cross-origin requests and how CORS solves that. It’s defined in the HTML5 specs and is supported by all modern browsers.
- (02:12) Jon asks what’s required on the server for CORS to work. Brock explains how servers respond to browsers to tell them they support CORS and which other servers they want to allow communications with.
- (02:45) The most common form of browser communications for CORS is via an OPTIONS request from the browser, to which the server responds using predefined headers.
- (03:14) K. Scott asks about the process of getting his CORS implementation added to the ASP.NET Web API codebase. Brock explains the process, including his big pull request and the month of work he and Yao put in to getting the code "Microsoftified." Brock’s implementation was pretty broad, the shipping version was targeted just at Web API.
- Thinktecture Identity Model
- (04:59) Jon asks if there’s any reason to use the Thinktecture Identity Model version now. Brock explains the other areas that Identity Model supports, and that many of the features of Thinktecture Identity Model have been removed as ASP.NET Web API has added a lot of these features to the core.
- ASP.NET Identity and Membership Reboot
- (06:09) K. Scott asks how the identity features in Thinktecture Identity Model compare to the new features shipped in the new ASP.NET Identity system. Brock describes the problems that the ASP.NET Identity system was designed to solve.
- (07:02) Brock describes the membership system he wrote as an alternative to the ASP.NET provider model system, called Membership Reboot. His Membership Reboot system includes things like password resets and e-mail account verification which are not in the initial version of ASP.NET Identity, but he thinks that the new system is well architected to add these in, since it’s just a NuGet package.
- (07:42) Jon asks Brock about the other features Membership Reboot covers. Brock says that was the subject of one of his talks – how he implemented features like password reset, e-mail verification and two factor authentication without opening up attack vectors.
- ASP.NET Security
- (08:27) K. Scott asks about the other talks Brock did at NDC London. His other talk was on ASP.NET Core Security – he focused on teasing apart the membership and forms authentication parts so they’re understood as separate components.
- (09:20) Jon asks Brock how he got interested in security. Brock talks about his background in programming, and how he thinks it’s interesting to see how the different parts work together.
- (09:48) Jon talks about cases he sees where developers decide they want to write their own security implementations for speed or other reasons. Brock says that was one of the key points of his talk: you don’t want to implement those things yourself.
- (10:19) Jon asks about common security issues that developers commonly forget to consider. Brock lists several: proper implementation of SSL, password management, etc.
- What’s Next For Brock?
- (11:09) Jon asks what’s next for Brock. He’ll be busy: he’s got a lot of course rework for recent updates, Identity Server v3 (with OpenID Connect).
- (11:46) Jon asks how OpenID Connect affects him as a developer.
- (13:15) K. Scott asks what Brock does to relax. Brock does Tai Chi and Kung Fu.
At NDC London, Jon and K. Scott talk to Paul Betts about several of his recent open source libraries designed to simplify cross platform development on C#.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 186: Paul Betts on three cross-platform libraries: splat, ModernHttpClient and punchclock
- (00:18) Jon welcomes Paul back – he’s been on a few times before, talking about GitHub for Windows and Reactive UI.
- (00:28) Paul has a dream: he’d like to write applications in C# and have them run everywhere: iOS, Android, Windows Phone maybe even WinRT. He’s not interested in sharing everything (views or designer code), but there’s plenty of other code that developers shouldn’t need to rewrite for every platform.
- (01:16) Jon asks if Xamarin doesn’t help with this. Paul says that Xamarin’s intention is to give you direct access to the native platform, which is good when developing for a specific platform, but not when you’re working on cross-platform applications.
- 01:32 Paul’s been on a crusade, writing a lot of small, cross-platform libraries.
- (01:48) splat is a library that lets you share certain things in cross-platform viewmodels, the biggest one being images. It allows for the simple load-and-display scenario. Each platform hast its own image types; splat gives you a common abstract image type that you can then cast to a native image. This allows you to write cross-platform viewmodels and just have native views. splat also gives you System.Drawing on platforms that don’t have it, e.g. WinRT by providing common types for primitives like colors and rectangles.
- (04:08) Jon asks if portable class libraries will help with this. Paul explains the PCL operations for splat.
- (04:45) Jon asks about support for high-DPI / Retina images. Paul talks about how the different platforms handle high DPI images.
- (05:44) Paul says that HttpClient is implemented on Xamarin using HttpWebRequest. This has some problems: it doesn’t use 3G on iOS, and it’s a blocking call. That means if you make several web requests, you end up with a bunch of waiting threads and the app slows down.
- (06:45) There are better APIs available on each platform, so Paul’s taken the most popular HTTP libraries on each platform and made them HttpClient compatible. HttpClient allows you to specify an HttpMessageHandler, so in your portable library you can just drop in the handlers provided by ModernHttpClient .
- (08:33) In the latest version, Paul’s done work to make sure you can cancel requests. This lets you cancel a request based on headers (e.g. status codes or ETags) which can make a big difference on mobile network usage.
- (09:23) Jon asks how it works in the Windows platforms. Paul says that on WinRT it’s already built in, and on Windows Phone there’s no way to do anything better than HttpWebRequest.
- Jon asks a bit more about how you use it. Paul explains how platform-specific factory methods can provide the different handlers.
- (11:00) punchclock lets you make multiple web requests; it queues them up and makes the requests for you so there are a maximum of four web requests at a time. It’s based on an Android library called Volley.
- (12:20) punchclock is a priority based scheduler. You can then make things like analytics low priority and user initiated requests high priority.
- (13:12) It’s not just specific to network requests, you can use it for anything that’s awaitable.
- What’s Paul using these on?
- (13:35) Jon asks Paul what kind of mobile applications he’s building that are pushing him to build these libraries. Paul says he’s been working on some internal applications at GitHub. One example is a support application called Halp. It lets customer support people use @mention style messages to developers, allowing developers to respond quickly from mobile devices.
- Reactive UI documentation
- (15:10) Jon asks Paul what he’s been doing when he’s not writing cool code. Paul says he’s been working on documentation for Reactive UI by writing one big article per day.
At NDC Jon and K. Scott talk to Glenn Block about Splunk.
Download / Listen: Herding Code 185: Glenn Block on Splunk
- (00:18) Glenn got a new job at Splunk.
- What is Splunk?
- (00:40) Jon asks Glenn what Splunk does. Splunk has a product that gathers operational intelligence. It’s got a data analytics platform which understands a lot of log formats. It can handle streaming logs and has a bunch of API’s. It can index in realtime, handles unstructured data, and has some advanced pattern matching features.
- (02:12) Glenn talks about some common uses. GitHub and Target both use Splunk. It’s especially liked by IT Admins who can query across multiple servers by timeslice in realtime. There’s a customizable dashboard to surface the information.
- (03:24) Glenn says that since Splunk has a powerful API, you can push data into it. You can push data in using HTTP or TCP.
- (04:01) You can teach Splunk to fetch data from a source using their app platform. Glenn talks about an Azure app he built for Windows Azure Web Sites diagnostics.
- (05:39) Splunk is available in the cloud, but it’s often run on premises. It’s cross-platform. It doesn’t store the data, it just indexes it.
- Pricing, free versions, cloud hosted versions
- (06:44) Glenn says the pricing is based on data throughput. They have a free license that gives you 500MB/day, a developer license that gives you 10GB/day for a limited time, a free cloud product called Splunk Storm which gives you 20GB/application for a 30 days, and a new enterprise product called Splunk Cloud running in AWS. The enterprise cloud product is especially useful for AWS hosted apps.
- (08:20) Jon asks if there’s a planned cloud hosted offering for Windows Azure. Glenn says he’s pushing for it, but in the meantime it’s pretty easy to install it yourself.
- (08:58) K. Scott asks about what he’d see if he used Glenn’s Azure app on a Windows Azure Web Site. Glenn lists some of the data and sources.
- Developing Splunk apps and language support
- (10:03) K. Scott asks about the process of writing a Splunk app. Glenn talks about all the language specific SDK’s they support and describes the process.
- (11:20) K. Scott asks how they support so many languages in Splunk. Glenn says it’s pretty Unixy in that it works with streams, so all the language specific SDK’s work with that.
- Using Splunk for evented data, not just logs
- (12:25) Jon asks about some real world examples of things people are monitoring. Glenn talks about a recent DSL-like feature called data models, which allows business analysts to search through the data, and graphically pivot on it. One of the places people use that is for monitoring the entire dev lifecycle. Security auditing is a huge use case. 50% of the Fortune 100 uses Splunk. Glenn gives an example of how one of his co-workers wrote a Node app using Firebase’s bus feed to show a realtime map with bus location.
- (16:00) Jon says this seems to blur the lines between logs and event sourcing. Glenn says it’s not just a log platform, and works really well with evented data.
- Technology stack
- (16:44) Jon asks what technologies it runs on, and if it’s using Hadoop. Glenn says Hadoop’s great, but not for realtime. They do have a product called Hunk which can access Hadoop HDFS information, though. It’s mostly C++ and Python (Django). They’ve recently rolled out an app frameowrk which makes it easy to customize Splunk using Django. There’s no database, since Splunk really just maintains indexes to data from other sources.
- Glenn’s new book: Designing Evolvable Web APIs with ASP.NET
- (19:25) Jon asks Glenn what he does in his free time. Glenn talks about the book he (and friends) are just finishing, called Designing Evolvable Web APIs with ASP.NET. It focuses on building a real system using hypermedia using ASP.NET Web API.
- (20:35) Jon asks about versioning: are they using headers, URLs, etc.? Glenn says their argument is based on using additional media types and hypermedia. Hypermedia makes it easier to evolve your API because your clients are following links, not using hardcode URLs.
- (22:15) Jon says hypermedia sounds great, but developers often want to follow defined links. Glenn says he doesn’t think it as a magical automaton, but both developers and code can look for new links as they’re added.
- (23:40) Jon says it’s harder to evolve APIs if you’re thinking RPC style, but once you’re focused on resouces it’s easier. Glenn says this pattern has worked great for the web – clients just ignore things they don’t understand. Jon and Glenn say this is similar also to the move from relational databases to document databases.
- (24:30) Glenn says it’s exciting to finally see some hypermedia APIs coming out: PayPal, GitHub, Amazon’s streaming APIs, and NPR’s recent API updates based on hypermedia.
- (25:30) Glenn says the book doesn’t try to convince you that this is the only way, just shows the benefits. K. Scott says this sounds really useful to move from the theoretical to some concrete examples.